tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post6408681081787899510..comments2023-11-05T07:44:07.654-05:00Comments on GeniusboyFiremelon: "Batman R.I.P." Part VI: Batman #681 AnnotationsTimothy Callahanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04078183191900311833noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-49567687222673255492008-12-06T20:16:00.000-05:002008-12-06T20:16:00.000-05:00Can someone explain something to me?On page 23, Dr...Can someone explain something to me?<BR/><BR/>On page 23, Dr. Hurt/the Devil clearly states that he is the one he painted Zur-En-Arrh on the walls of Gotham and in previous issues, we'd been led to believe that Hurt implanted to phrase as far back as in when Batman entered the isolation tank.<BR/><BR/>Yet then, on the final page, there's a clear suggestion that Bruce himself had created the trigger phrase as a mechanism for resisting psychic attack and obviously, we've been told multiple times that he booted to a created personality of the Batman of Zur-En-Arrh while his mind was rebooting.<BR/><BR/>So which is it? It makes me feel a bit stupid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-68666355943439223932008-12-05T14:05:00.000-05:002008-12-05T14:05:00.000-05:00I dig the Pynchon comparison too, although I don't...I dig the Pynchon comparison too, although I don't know if Grant Morrison is hip to it. Nota bene, the "villain" (or ghostly architect of the hoax) in that novel is one PIERCE Inverarity (which sounds like "pierce inveracity" which suggests piercing non-truths). Which is echoed in "Mangrove Pierce" - sorta. <BR/> Also, the last time Pierce Inverarity is ever heard by Oedipa Maas he is impersonating Lamont Cranston (The Shadow). That isn't an answer - of course - merely further obfuscation. Still, isn't it nice to idly conjecture? Beats reading What If... House of M by a country mile.<BR/> Also - wouldn't it be great if they resumed the DC version of The Shadow? The Kyle Baker one? An unsung classic, lads.<BR/> Lamont Cranston = Dr. Hurt = Batman.<BR/> Grant Morrison can suck and stink at times, but I agree that this particular arc is the best in the genre today. Christ, comic readers are being made to THINK. Whoever heard of that?Edison Naifhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10865284867676341081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-82130223875874397442008-12-03T18:36:00.000-05:002008-12-03T18:36:00.000-05:00And, if Hurt is the Devil, is this in a sense a re...And, if Hurt is the Devil, is this in a sense a retelling of the Job story, where the Devil makes a bet that he can crush a man's soul and is proven wrong?<BR/><BR/>If so, that puts the Joker in the role of God as the counter-bettor.Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14597904189560820388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-81846487041493136132008-12-03T16:02:00.000-05:002008-12-03T16:02:00.000-05:00P. 17 - Joker says, "Pleased to meet you" to "the ...P. 17 - Joker says, "Pleased to meet you" to "the Devil" Rolling Stones reference?Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14597904189560820388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-45473026851937350152008-12-03T02:29:00.000-05:002008-12-03T02:29:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-41739221996291283742008-12-01T04:16:00.000-05:002008-12-01T04:16:00.000-05:00The spam post above me blew my mind.The spam post above me blew my mind.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165242927695290269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-46520730609509363952008-11-29T02:28:00.000-05:002008-11-29T02:28:00.000-05:00Mr. Rich Johnston claims he hasn't heard anything ...Mr. Rich Johnston claims he hasn't heard anything about Batman RIP rewrites, so I'm pretty sure they didn't occur. This is Grant's ending. Wonder what the next two issues will bring - the cover scan of Bats 682 on ebay has it as both a Last Rites and Final Crisis tie-in.David Uzumerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12273284254602286534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-69263300834937877012008-11-28T08:00:00.000-05:002008-11-28T08:00:00.000-05:00An earlier poster intriguingly compared RIP to The...An earlier poster intriguingly compared RIP to The Crying of Lot 49 as a way of dismissing the theory that Dr. Hurt is the devil. I'm in basic agreement that the unreliable pattern recognition driving Bruce's thoughts seems to be at the center of the story and that Hurt's position at the navel of this process (where the dream can no longer be rationalized) is more important than his identity. Still, it's not like Lot 49 doesn't produce the exact same sort of figure in the form of A.) Trystero and B.) Maxwell's Demon (the latter a possible equivalent for the Batman persona in the ideal, a quantum rationalist). Within this kind of story, where the detective imposes meaning upon possibly chaotic patterns, it seems like a devil figure emerges to fill the place of the ultimate puppeteer, the guarantee that everything means something and has something to do with us.<BR/><BR/>-DanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-36102320978067441182008-11-28T01:49:00.000-05:002008-11-28T01:49:00.000-05:00Man is History going to be busy... what with havin...Man is History going to be busy... what with having to judge both the Morrison/Daniel Batman run and the GWBush administration.<BR/><BR/>[Thanks and be sure to tip your waitresses.]<BR/><BR/>Oh, and earlier, instead of "solicitations didn't really say anything that Morrison himself hyped" it should have been, obviously that the "solicitations didn't really say anything that Morrison himself didnt say while hyping it at panels, etc"<BR/><BR/>Fingers and brain clearly not working the same speed.Rob Pughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18355643989278053777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-89734655718609086312008-11-27T21:25:00.000-05:002008-11-27T21:25:00.000-05:00I think Morrison's Batman run will always be seen ...I think Morrison's Batman run will always be seen as hugely important. It may not affect the continuity in the long-term (as much of Morrison's work tends to be washed away by the writers who follow him), but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that even if this Dr. Hurt thing is never resolved completely, this run will be looked at as a milestone in Batman storytelling for decades.<BR/><BR/>If you look at Batman runs from the Bronze Age onward, it will be O'Neil/Adams, Englehart/Rogers, Miller/Mazuchelli, Loeb/Sale, Morrison/Daniel. Those will be the biggies.<BR/><BR/>Ten years from now, come back and tell me how wrong I am about that. I don't think I will be.Timothy Callahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078183191900311833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-72567139619697983782008-11-27T21:02:00.000-05:002008-11-27T21:02:00.000-05:00I don't know... you keep laying the blame with th...I don't know... you keep laying the blame with the "solicitations"... but the solicitations didn't really say anything that Morrison himself hyped in panels and interviews... and then Didio and DC's marketing did the same.<BR/><BR/>RIP was interesting, but not fulfilling... emotionally, intellectually, or as a story... for me, of course.<BR/><BR/>And the fact that folks are talking about it doesn't necessarily imply its importance. In fact in this case, it seems they're talking about it because they WANTED it to BE important, and it turned out it doesn't really seem to be. They're talking about it because they're disappointed in it.Rob Pughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18355643989278053777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-82939927269032109722008-11-27T20:43:00.000-05:002008-11-27T20:43:00.000-05:00Jordan: Did I like it?Yeah, I did. Chad and I are...Jordan: Did I like it?<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I did. Chad and I are going to talk about the issue in this week's Splash Page, but even with my disappointment at the lack of concrete resolution (and that disappointment was based on my stupid contextual assumptions from the solicitations ABOUT this issue, not because I didn't like the actual issue itself) I still feel like "Batman" has been, BY FAR, the best Marvel or DC comic of the past six months.<BR/><BR/>The fact that we're still talking about it testifies to how important this comic is. A lot of other stuff doesn't make complete sense, and nobody cares enough to write endless blog posts, discussion threads, or comments on it. "Batman" has been a lot of fun, and an intellectually stimulating exercise, and I think it's not over yet.Timothy Callahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04078183191900311833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-68151910440407290712008-11-27T18:58:00.000-05:002008-11-27T18:58:00.000-05:00Hey Tim, I’m a long time reader, first time commen...Hey Tim, <BR/><BR/>I’m a long time reader, first time commenter. I always enjoy these and your writing in general. Of course that may be because of my unhealthy love for Morrison's writing. <BR/><BR/>Enough praise, I also have some self-promotion. I wrote about Batman #681 here.<BR/><BR/>http://readrant.wordpress.com/2008/11/27/review-batman-681-spoilers/<BR/><BR/>It's long, but it wouldn't be worth reading if it wasn't, right? Thanks a lot and keep up the good work!Bruce Castlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17846693035012897076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-3693379936726574212008-11-27T17:14:00.000-05:002008-11-27T17:14:00.000-05:00I've read both of Alvin Schwartz's books [and enjo...I've read both of Alvin Schwartz's books [and enjoyed them immensely] but neither helps me understand Batman RIP.<BR/><BR/>And after a couple days I'm leaning more towards the story working on a symbolic/post-modern level, but not at all as an in-continuity, monthly comic book. <BR/><BR/>And the "buried alive" and "explosion/no body" tropes are more annoying the more I think about them...<BR/><BR/>...and I think anyone telling anyone else they "need to read more post modern fiction" is one of the big reasons they actually don't, and maybe don't care so much its proponents... fwiw.Rob Pughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18355643989278053777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-90207218469807005432008-11-27T14:04:00.000-05:002008-11-27T14:04:00.000-05:00R.I.P = Rest in Pieces?Could the "hole" = Joyce's ...R.I.P = Rest in Pieces?<BR/><BR/>Could the "hole" = Joyce's gnomon, the absent piece of a parallelogram?<BR/><BR/>When "everything counts," then a constellation of parallels results in the modern deconstructionist's dilemma: to make sense of relativity requires slipping into a form of apophenia.<BR/><BR/>Childhood trauma (to varying degrees) triggers psychological fragmentation, leading to multiple personae.<BR/><BR/>We cope by creating the illusion of unity, sometimes aided by the creation of a "tulpa," an imaginary guide made manifest.<BR/><BR/>Morrison admits to being influenced by Alvin Schwartz's book, "Unlikely Prophet."<BR/><BR/>I recommend Schwartz's book as a key to understanding both R.I.P and All-Star Superman.Kalki-Elhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06843237783901081698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-2350612818212918012008-11-27T13:57:00.000-05:002008-11-27T13:57:00.000-05:00@The Crafty Trilobite: You need to read more postm...@The Crafty Trilobite: You need to read more postmodern fiction. I'd recommend starting with City of Glass, the first novella in Paul Auster's New York Trilogy.Arturo Uliseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06271843680584961672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-55625591186630317462008-11-27T13:54:00.000-05:002008-11-27T13:54:00.000-05:00"All along I've considered Morrison's run to be re..."All along I've considered Morrison's run to be reminiscent of Thomas Pynchon's The Crying of Lot 49, and this ending continues to fit that pattern. Like Oedipa, Bruce is seeing clues where none exist, and we too, like Bruce, are desperately searching for an answer when we don't even fully understand the question."<BR/><BR/>Thank you, Kris!Arturo Uliseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06271843680584961672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-15664039193558781722008-11-27T13:23:00.000-05:002008-11-27T13:23:00.000-05:00This is exactly the sort of thing that irritates m...This is exactly the sort of thing that irritates me about The Great Grant Morrison -- he appears to have principled objections to ever having a story make sense. I'm with Steven Brust on this one: first and foremost, your story should work as a story. Then you can lard in all the clever symbolism, word games, layering, etc. that you like. But setting up a mystery and refusing to answer it is tedious and unfair to the readers who have been trying to make sense of it all. <BR/><BR/>Worse yet, there is no possible satisfactory answer. Not only would an explanation in a future issue be an anticlimax, but there are too many contradictions and random, unmotivated events. <BR/><BR/>Pallas is right -- it works as symbolism. The problem is, other people in the story see the events happening (well, most of them). So we're not just seeing Wayne's fantasy; the implicit bargain with the reader is that there will turn out to be some other explanation. But what? What could possibly make the real world reflect Wayne's own internal problems so well? The Devil? Come ON -- if you have to blame it all on the Devil, then you're a lousy writer. And even the Devil needs motivation. Think of the Book of Job: apparently arbitrary destruction of Job's life, but we the readers see the Adversary's motivation and it fits all of his acts. Or Othello -- Iago's motivation is deliberately obscured, but we know how he achieves his effects and we have a few possible motivations any of which could reasonably work. Here, it's just this great big void. <BR/><BR/>Sure, that makes an artistic statement: the world makes no sense and can't; if you want sense, go to Wikipedia, not real life. But, as Dustin Hoffman's agent in 'Tootsie' said, "People don't wanna go to the theater to see people living next to chemical waste! They can drive across the bridge to New Joisey to see that!"<BR/>We all know parts of life don't make perfect sense and aren't under our control -- and that's exactly WHY we go to art, to find ways to manage the chaos. Morrison refuses to make that attempt, and tells us the best the hero can do is go mad himself and die. That is not an artistic statement I want to spend $4/issue on. <BR/><BR/>I am SO glad I decided not to buy this storyline.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-614846673481644202008-11-27T13:20:00.000-05:002008-11-27T13:20:00.000-05:00...So did you like it? Your annotations seem very......So did you like it? Your annotations seem very sarcastic and dissmissive, which leads me to believe you DIDN'T like it. But you're such a big Morrisson fan.<BR/><BR/>I am very, very disappointed and perplexed by this "conclusion."<BR/><BR/><BR/>-JordanJordanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13858465228077926840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-19303556775403015872008-11-27T11:19:00.000-05:002008-11-27T11:19:00.000-05:00Is Zorro in Arkham--"What?"--the trigger phrase, Z...Is Zorro in Arkham--"What?"--the trigger phrase, Zur en Arrh? Did the Black Glove go back that far?<BR/><BR/>I think the ending is purposefully vague: It doesn't rule out anyone from being the Black Glove, does it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-50627928906429176162008-11-27T10:34:00.000-05:002008-11-27T10:34:00.000-05:00i think Pallas nailed the whole thingI'm more incl...i think Pallas nailed the whole thing<BR/><BR/>I'm more inclined to believe Hurt is really Pierce who escaped prison and took on the fake Hurt identity, became obsessed with the Waynes and Batman and eventually came to believe he was more than a man, he was Thomas Wayne or he was really the devil wearing his once human husk...Manolis Vamvounishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11837151734535124044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-53492927310118366432008-11-27T10:11:00.000-05:002008-11-27T10:11:00.000-05:00It's lame ending. They advertised the whole thing ...It's lame ending. They advertised the whole thing is as "Batman's final fate!", so where is it, the bloddy final fate? A nw cape for the gallery?<BR/>I think it turns out this way: Morrisson, being a fan of Silver Age Batman, does surely know of a story, in which was revealed that Joe Chill actually was a hired killer in services of mobster Lew Moxon, Thpmas Wayne could testify againt him. So, he killed the Waynes, but not Bruce, so it would look like armed robbery. <BR/>Now it could be possible, that "The Black Glove" actually ist the person, who once gave assignment to kill the Waynes. <BR/>Once he brought in Bat-Mite, why not revise Lew Moxon?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-55945078168996702202008-11-27T04:39:00.000-05:002008-11-27T04:39:00.000-05:00I think Dr Hurt is really just Judas Traveller.I think Dr Hurt is really just Judas Traveller.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-68406806832965238252008-11-27T03:28:00.000-05:002008-11-27T03:28:00.000-05:00Now the story continues to Final Crisis where Bruc...Now the story continues to Final Crisis where Bruce wears the cowl one last time. So he is clearly not meant to die here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22842788.post-39352087622572808892008-11-27T02:46:00.000-05:002008-11-27T02:46:00.000-05:00Why does the devil hate batman so much? Do-gooder ...Why does the devil hate batman so much? Do-gooder etc.<BR/><BR/>How is the devil batman's father? He is the evil in all man, he is the guiding force in Chill's trigger finger. Thomas Wayne is Bruce's father (Pierce/Hurt is double of Thomas). Devil is batman's <BR/><BR/>He killed Pierce and wore his skin? Hurt was/is Pierce but at this point its the devil and he is only wearing his form or at least that is what he believes. If he is then....Pierce made faustian pact of some kind? For revenge?<BR/><BR/>Is Bruce dead...nope. Is Bruce dead as batman...yip<BR/><BR/>I liked it, its vague but I liked the last episode of the sopranos...<BR/><BR/>The joker apophenia thing is the best part of the book. Last ten pages should have been a whole issue...final crisis mode taking over? Man bats can fly really fast.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com